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Dragonchain Great Reddit Scaling Bake-Off Public Proposal
submitted by j0j0r0 to ethereum
Dragonchain Public Proposal TL;DR:Dragonchain has demonstrated twice Reddit’s entire total daily volume (votes, comments, and posts per Reddit 2019 Year in Review) in a 24-hour demo on an operational network. Every single transaction on Dragonchain is decentralized immediately through 5 levels of Dragon Net, and then secured with combined proof on Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, and Binance Chain, via Interchain. At the time, in January 2020, the entire cost of the demo was approximately $25K on a single system (transaction fees locked at $0.0001/txn). With current fees (lowest fee $0.0000025/txn), this would cost as little as $625.
Watch Joe walk through the entire proposal and answer questions on YouTube.
This proposal is also available on the Dragonchain blog.
Hello Reddit and Ethereum community!I’m Joe Roets, Founder & CEO of Dragonchain. When the team and I first heard about The Great Reddit Scaling Bake-Off we were intrigued. We believe we have the solutions Reddit seeks for its community points system and we have them at scale.
For your consideration, we have submitted our proposal below. The team at Dragonchain and I welcome and look forward to your technical questions, philosophical feedback, and fair criticism, to build a scaling solution for Reddit that will empower its users. Because our architecture is unlike other blockchain platforms out there today, we expect to receive many questions while people try to grasp our project. I will answer all questions here in this thread on Reddit, and I've answered some questions in the stream on YouTube.
We have seen good discussions so far in the competition. We hope that Reddit’s scaling solution will emerge from The Great Reddit Scaling Bake-Off and that Reddit will have great success with the implementation.
Executive summaryDragonchain is a robust open source hybrid blockchain platform that has proven to withstand the passing of time since our inception in 2014. We have continued to evolve to harness the scalability of private nodes, yet take full advantage of the security of public decentralized networks, like Ethereum. We have a live, operational, and fully functional Interchain network integrating Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, and ~700 independent Dragonchain nodes. Every transaction is secured to Ethereum, Bitcoin, and Ethereum Classic. Transactions are immediately usable on chain, and the first decentralization is seen within 20 seconds on Dragon Net. Security increases further to public networks ETH, BTC, and ETC within 10 minutes to 2 hours. Smart contracts can be written in any executable language, offering full freedom to existing developers. We invite any developer to watch the demo, play with our SDK’s, review open source code, and to help us move forward. Dragonchain specializes in scalable loyalty & rewards solutions and has built a decentralized social network on chain, with very affordable transaction costs. This experience can be combined with the insights Reddit and the Ethereum community have gained in the past couple of months to roll out the solution at a rapid pace.
Response and PoCIn The Great Reddit Scaling Bake-Off post, Reddit has asked for a series of demonstrations, requirements, and other considerations. In this section, we will attempt to answer all of these requests.
A live proof of concept showing hundreds of thousands of transactionsOn Jan 7, 2020, Dragonchain hosted a 24-hour live demonstration during which a quarter of a billion (250 million+) transactions executed fully on an operational network. Every single transaction on Dragonchain is decentralized immediately through 5 levels of Dragon Net, and then secured with combined proof on Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, and Binance Chain, via Interchain. This means that every single transaction is secured by, and traceable to these networks. An attack on this system would require a simultaneous attack on all of the Interchained networks.
24 hours in 4 minutes (YouTube):
24 hours in 4 minutes
The demonstration was of a single business system, and any user is able to scale this further, by running multiple systems simultaneously. Our goals for the event were to demonstrate a consistent capacity greater than that of Visa over an extended time period.
Tooling to reproduce our demo is available here:
Source code (for on & off-chain components as well tooling used for the PoC). The source code does not have to be shared publicly, but if Reddit decides to use a particular solution it will need to be shared with Reddit at some point.
How it works & scales
Architectural ScalingDragonchain’s architecture attacks the scalability issue from multiple angles. Dragonchain is a hybrid blockchain platform, wherein every transaction is protected on a business node to the requirements of that business or purpose. A business node may be held completely private or may be exposed or replicated to any level of exposure desired.
Every node has its own blockchain and is independently scalable. Dragonchain established Context Based Verification as its consensus model. Every transaction is immediately usable on a trust basis, and in time is provable to an increasing level of decentralized consensus. A transaction will have a level of decentralization to independently owned and deployed Dragonchain nodes (~700 nodes) within seconds, and full decentralization to BTC and ETH within minutes or hours. Level 5 nodes (Interchain nodes) function to secure all transactions to public or otherwise external chains such as Bitcoin and Ethereum. These nodes scale the system by aggregating multiple blocks into a single Interchain transaction on a cadence. This timing is configurable based upon average fees for each respective chain. For detailed information about Dragonchain’s architecture, and Context Based Verification, please refer to the Dragonchain Architecture Document.
Economic ScalingAn interesting feature of Dragonchain’s network consensus is its economics and scarcity model. Since Dragon Net nodes (L2-L4) are independent staking nodes, deployment to cloud platforms would allow any of these nodes to scale to take on a large percentage of the verification work. This is great for scalability, but not good for the economy, because there is no scarcity, and pricing would develop a downward spiral and result in fewer verification nodes. For this reason, Dragonchain uses TIME as scarcity.
TIME is calculated as the number of Dragons held, multiplied by the number of days held. TIME influences the user’s access to features within the Dragonchain ecosystem. It takes into account both the Dragon balance and length of time each Dragon is held. TIME is staked by users against every verification node and dictates how much of the transaction fees are awarded to each participating node for every block.
TIME also dictates the transaction fee itself for the business node. TIME is staked against a business node to set a deterministic transaction fee level (see transaction fee table below in Cost section). This is very interesting in a discussion about scaling because it guarantees independence for business implementation. No matter how much traffic appears on the entire network, a business is guaranteed to not see an increased transaction fee rate.
Scaled DeploymentDragonchain uses Docker and Kubernetes to allow the use of best practices traditional system scaling. Dragonchain offers managed nodes with an easy to use web based console interface. The user may also deploy a Dragonchain node within their own datacenter or favorite cloud platform. Users have deployed Dragonchain nodes on-prem on Amazon AWS, Google Cloud, MS Azure, and other hosting platforms around the world. Any executable code, anything you can write, can be written into a smart contract. This flexibility is what allows us to say that developers with no blockchain experience can use any code language to access the benefits of blockchain. Customers have used NodeJS, Python, Java, and even BASH shell script to write smart contracts on Dragonchain.
With Docker containers, we achieve better separation of concerns, faster deployment, higher reliability, and lower response times.
We chose Kubernetes for its self-healing features, ability to run multiple services on one server, and its large and thriving development community. It is resilient, scalable, and automated. OpenFaaS allows us to package smart contracts as Docker images for easy deployment.
Contract deployment time is now bounded only by the size of the Docker image being deployed but remains fast even for reasonably large images. We also take advantage of Docker’s flexibility and its ability to support any language that can run on x86 architecture. Any image, public or private, can be run as a smart contract using Dragonchain.
Flexibility in ScalingDragonchain’s architecture considers interoperability and integration as key features. From inception, we had a goal to increase adoption via integration with real business use cases and traditional systems.
We envision the ability for Reddit, in the future, to be able to integrate alternate content storage platforms or other financial services along with the token.
Cost estimates (on-chain and off-chain) For the purpose of this proposal, we assume that all transactions are on chain (posts, replies, and votes).On the Dragonchain network, transaction costs are deterministic/predictable. By staking TIME on the business node (as described above) Reddit can reduce transaction costs to as low as $0.0000025 per transaction.
Dragonchain Fees Table
How to run itBuilding on Dragonchain is simple and requires no blockchain experience. Spin up a business node (L1) in our managed environment (AWS), run it in your own cloud environment, or on-prem in your own datacenter. Clear documentation will walk you through the steps of spinning up your first Dragonchain Level 1 Business node.
Getting started is easy...
ArchitectureDragonchain is an open source hybrid platform. Through Dragon Net, each chain combines the power of a public blockchain (like Ethereum) with the privacy of a private blockchain.
Dragonchain organizes its network into five separate levels. A Level 1, or business node, is a totally private blockchain only accessible through the use of public/private keypairs. All business logic, including smart contracts, can be executed on this node directly and added to the chain.
After creating a block, the Level 1 business node broadcasts a version stripped of sensitive private data to Dragon Net. Three Level 2 Validating nodes validate the transaction based on guidelines determined from the business. A Level 3 Diversity node checks that the level 2 nodes are from a diverse array of locations. A Level 4 Notary node, hosted by a KYC partner, then signs the validation record received from the Level 3 node. The transaction hash is ledgered to the Level 5 public chain to take advantage of the hash power of massive public networks.
Dragon Net can be thought of as a “blockchain of blockchains”, where every level is a complete private blockchain. Because an L1 can send to multiple nodes on a single level, proof of existence is distributed among many places in the network. Eventually, proof of existence reaches level 5 and is published on a public network.
APIs (on chain & off)
Known issues or tradeoffs
Costs and resources
Summary of cost & resource information for both on-chain & off-chain components used in the PoC, as well as cost & resource estimates for further scaling. If your PoC is not on mainnet, make note of any mainnet caveats (such as congestion issues).Every transaction on the PoC system had a transaction fee of $0.0001 (one-hundredth of a cent USD). At 256MM transactions, the demo cost $25,600. With current operational fees, the same demonstration would cost $640 USD.
For the demonstration, to achieve throughput to mimic a worldwide payments network, we modeled several clients in AWS and 4-5 business nodes to handle the traffic. The business nodes were tuned to handle higher throughput by adjusting memory and machine footprint on AWS. This flexibility is valuable to implementing a system such as envisioned by Reddit. Given that Reddit’s daily traffic (posts, replies, and votes) is less than half that of our demo, we would expect that the entire Reddit system could be handled on 2-5 business nodes using right-sized containers on AWS or similar environments.
Verification was accomplished on the operational Dragon Net network with over 700 independently owned verification nodes running around the world at no cost to the business other than paid transaction fees.
This PoC should scale to the numbers below with minimal costs (both on & off-chain). There should also be a clear path to supporting hundreds of millions of users.During Dragonchain’s 24 hour demo, the above required numbers were reached within the first few minutes.
Reddit’s total activity is 9000% more than Ethereum’s total transaction level. Even if you do not include votes, it is still 700% more than Ethereum’s current volume. Dragonchain has demonstrated that it can handle 250 million transactions a day, and it’s architecture allows for multiple systems to work at that level simultaneously. In our PoC, we demonstrate double the full capacity of Reddit, and every transaction was proven all the way to Bitcoin and Ethereum.
Reddit Scaling on Ethereum
Solutions should not depend on any single third-party provider. We prefer solutions that do not depend on specific entities such as Reddit or another provider, and solutions with no single point of control or failure in off-chain components but recognize there are numerous trade-offs to considerDragonchain’s architecture calls for a hybrid approach. Private business nodes hold the sensitive data while the validation and verification of transactions for the business are decentralized within seconds and secured to public blockchains within 10 minutes to 2 hours. Nodes could potentially be controlled by owners of individual subreddits for more organic decentralization.
Usability Scaling solutions should have a simple end user experience.
Users shouldn't have to maintain any extra state/proofs, regularly monitor activity, keep track of extra keys, or sign anything other than their normal transactionsDragonchain and its customers have demonstrated extraordinary usability as a feature in many applications, where users do not need to know that the system is backed by a live blockchain. Lyceum is one of these examples, where the progress of academy courses is being tracked, and successful completion of courses is rewarded with certificates on chain. Our @Save_The_Tweet bot is popular on Twitter. When used with one of the following hashtags - #please, #blockchain, #ThankYou, or #eternalize the tweet is saved through Eternal to multiple blockchains. A proof report is available for future reference. Other examples in use are DEN, our decentralized social media platform, and our console, where users can track their node rewards, view their TIME, and operate a business node.
Transactions complete in a reasonable amount of time (seconds or minutes, not hours or days)All transactions are immediately usable on chain by the system. A transaction begins the path to decentralization at the conclusion of a 5-second block when it gets distributed across 5 separate community run nodes. Full decentralization occurs within 10 minutes to 2 hours depending on which interchain (Bitcoin, Ethereum, or Ethereum Classic) the transaction hits first. Within approximately 2 hours, the combined hash power of all interchained blockchains secures the transaction.
Free to use for end users (no gas fees, or fixed/minimal fees that Reddit can pay on their behalf)With transaction pricing as low as $0.0000025 per transaction, it may be considered reasonable for Reddit to cover transaction fees for users.
All of Reddit's Transactions on Blockchain (month)
Community points can be earned by users and distributed directly to their Reddit account in batch (as per Reddit minting plan), and allow users to withdraw rewards to their Ethereum wallet whenever they wish. Withdrawal fees can be paid by either user or Reddit. This model has been operating inside the Dragonchain system since 2018, and many security and financial compliance features can be optionally added. We feel that this capability greatly enhances user experience because it is seamless to a regular user without cryptocurrency experience, yet flexible to a tech savvy user. With regard to currency or token transactions, these would occur on the Reddit network, verified to BTC and ETH. These transactions would incur the $0.0000025 transaction fee. To estimate this fee we use the monthly active Reddit users statista with a 60% adoption rate and an estimated 10 transactions per month average resulting in an approximate $720 cost across the system. Reddit could feasibly incur all associated internal network charges (mining/minting, transfer, burn) as these are very low and controllable fees.
Reddit Internal Token Transaction Fees
Reddit Ethereum Token Transaction Fees
When we consider further the Ethereum fees that might be incurred, we have a few choices for a solution.
Users should be able to view their balances & transactions via a blockchain explorer-style interfaceFrom interfaces for users who have no knowledge of blockchain technology to users who are well versed in blockchain terms such as those present in a typical block explorer, a system powered by Dragonchain has flexibility on how to provide balances and transaction data to users. Transactions can be made viewable in an Eternal Proof Report, which displays raw data along with TIME staking information and traceability all the way to Bitcoin, Ethereum, and every other Interchained network. The report shows fields such as transaction ID, timestamp, block ID, multiple verifications, and Interchain proof. See example here.
Node payouts within the Dragonchain console are listed in chronological order and can be further seen in either Dragons or USD. See example here.
In our social media platform, Dragon Den, users can see, in real-time, their NRG and MTR balances. See example here.
A new influencer app powered by Dragonchain, Raiinmaker, breaks down data into a user friendly interface that shows coin portfolio, redeemed rewards, and social scores per campaign. See example here.
Exiting is fast & simpleWithdrawing funds on Dragonchain’s console requires three clicks, however, withdrawal scenarios with more enhanced security features per Reddit’s discretion are obtainable.
Interoperability Compatibility with third party apps (wallets/contracts/etc) is necessary.Proven interoperability at scale that surpasses the required specifications. Our entire platform consists of interoperable blockchains connected to each other and traditional systems. APIs are well documented. Third party permissions are possible with a simple smart contract without the end user being aware. No need to learn any specialized proprietary language. Any code base (not subsets) is usable within a Docker container. Interoperable with any blockchain or traditional APIs. We’ve witnessed relatively complex systems built by engineers with no blockchain or cryptocurrency experience. We’ve also demonstrated the creation of smart contracts within minutes built with BASH shell and Node.js. Please see our source code and API documentation.
Scaling solutions should be extensible and allow third parties to build on top of it Open source and extensible
Documentation should be clear and completeFor full documentation, explore our docs, SDK’s, Github repo’s, architecture documents, original Disney documentation, and other links or resources provided in this proposal.
Third-party permissionless integrations should be possible & straightforward Smart contracts are Docker based, can be written in any language, use full language (not subsets), and can therefore be integrated with any system including traditional system APIs. Simple is better. Learning an uncommon or proprietary language should not be necessary.Advanced knowledge of mathematics, cryptography, or L2 scaling should not be required. Compatibility with common utilities & toolchains is expected.
Dragonchain business nodes and smart contracts leverage Docker to allow the use of literally any language or executable code. No proprietary language is necessary. We’ve witnessed relatively complex systems built by engineers with no blockchain or cryptocurrency experience. We’ve also demonstrated the creation of smart contracts within minutes built with BASH shell and Node.js.
Bonus Points: Show us how it works. Do you have an idea for a cool new use case for Community Points? Build it!
TIMECommunity points could be awarded to Reddit users based upon TIME too, whereas the longer someone is part of a subreddit, the more community points someone naturally gained, even if not actively commenting or sharing new posts. A daily login could be required for these community points to be credited. This grants awards to readers too and incentivizes readers to create an account on Reddit if they browse the website often. This concept could also be leveraged to provide some level of reputation based upon duration and consistency of contribution to a community subreddit.
Dragon DenDragonchain has already built a social media platform that harnesses community involvement. Dragon Den is a decentralized community built on the Dragonchain blockchain platform. Dragon Den is Dragonchain’s answer to fake news, trolling, and censorship. It incentivizes the creation and evaluation of quality content within communities. It could be described as being a shareholder of a subreddit or Reddit in its entirety. The more your subreddit is thriving, the more rewarding it will be. Den is currently in a public beta and in active development, though the real token economy is not live yet. There are different tokens for various purposes. Two tokens are Lair Ownership Rights (LOR) and Lair Ownership Tokens (LOT). LOT is a non-fungible token for ownership of a specific Lair. LOT will only be created and converted from LOR.
Energy (NRG) and Matter (MTR) work jointly. Your MTR determines how much NRG you receive in a 24-hour period. Providing quality content, or evaluating content will earn MTR.
Security. Users have full ownership & control of their points.All community points awarded based upon any type of activity or gift, are secured and provable to all Interchain networks (currently BTC, ETH, ETC). Users are free to spend and withdraw their points as they please, depending on the features Reddit wants to bring into production.
Balances and transactions cannot be forged, manipulated, or blocked by Reddit or anyone elseUsers can withdraw their balance to their ERC20 wallet, directly through Reddit. Reddit can cover the fees on their behalf, or the user covers this with a portion of their balance.
Users should own their points and be able to get on-chain ERC20 tokens without permission from anyone elseThrough our console users can withdraw their ERC20 rewards. This can be achieved on Reddit too. Here is a walkthrough of our console, though this does not show the quick withdrawal functionality, a user can withdraw at any time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNlTMxnfVHw
Points should be recoverable to on-chain ERC20 tokens even if all third-parties involved go offlineIf necessary, signed transactions from the Reddit system (e.g. Reddit + Subreddit) can be sent to the Ethereum smart contract for minting.
A public, third-party review attesting to the soundness of the design should be availableTo our knowledge, at least two large corporations, including a top 3 accounting firm, have conducted positive reviews. These reviews have never been made public, as Dragonchain did not pay or contract for these studies to be released.
Bonus pointsSee above
Compatibility with HSMs & hardware walletsFor the purpose of this proposal, all tokenization would be on the Ethereum network using standard token contracts and as such, would be able to leverage all hardware wallet and Ethereum ecosystem services.
Minting/distributing tokens is not performed by Reddit directlyThis operation can be automated by smart contract on Ethereum. Subreddits can if desired have a role to play.
One off point burning, as well as recurring, non-interactive point burning (for subreddit memberships) should be possible and scalableThis is possible and scalable with interaction between Dragonchain Reddit system and Ethereum token contract(s).
Fully open-source solutions are strongly preferredDragonchain is fully open source (see section on Disney release after conclusion).
ConclusionWhether it is today, or in the future, we would like to work together to bring secure flexibility to the highest standards. It is our hope to be considered by Ethereum, Reddit, and other integrative solutions so we may further discuss the possibilities of implementation. In our public demonstration, 256 million transactions were handled in our operational network on chain in 24 hours, for the low cost of $25K, which if run today would cost $625. Dragonchain’s interoperable foundation provides the atmosphere necessary to implement a frictionless community points system. Thank you for your consideration of our proposal. We look forward to working with the community to make something great!
Disney Releases Blockchain Platform as Open SourceThe team at Disney created the Disney Private Blockchain Platform. The system was a hybrid interoperable blockchain platform for ledgering and smart contract development geared toward solving problems with blockchain adoption and usability. All objective evaluation would consider the team’s output a success. We released a list of use cases that we explored in some capacity at Disney, and our input on blockchain standardization as part of our participation in the W3C Blockchain Community Group.
Open SourceIn 2016, Roets proposed to release the platform as open source to spread the technology outside of Disney, as others within the W3C group were interested in the solutions that had been created inside of Disney.
Following a long process, step by step, the team met requirements for release. Among the requirements, the team had to:
The Disney Open Source Committee approved the application known as OSSRELEASE-10, and the code was released on October 2, 2016. Disney decided to not issue a press release.
Original OSSRELASE-10 document
Dragonchain FoundationThe Dragonchain Foundation was created on January 17, 2017. https://den.social/l/Dragonchain/24130078352e485d96d2125082151cf0/dragonchain-and-disney/
MEMBER CONTRIBUTED FAQ
What is the wiki? Where can I learn more about anabolic steroids?The Wiki - Click here -
The /steroids wiki provides common knowledge on Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid (AAS) use as well as specifics about the subreddit and our community. It is regularly updated with the latest information and research.
It includes anabolic steroid profiles, AAS related reading, info on how to run your first cycle, and many other tips and tricks to the world of anabolic steroids.
It is highly recommended to read this before posting to the Ask Anything thread.
Where can I buy steroids?Rule 2: No Source Talk. You will be banned from the sub for asking. No warnings.
Please read the subreddits rules in their entirety before choosing to post.
Can I switch from Test-C to Test-E mid cycle?Yes. They are pretty much interchangeable.
From the wiki:
>The ester weights are almost identical, with Cypionate being ever so-slightly heavier. Meaning there is ever so-slightly more actual testosterone hormone (~1%) in Enanthate.
>The terminal half-life's are also almost identical. Enanthate is 4.5 days. Cypionate is 5 days.
>For some, they may experience a slight difference in potential Post Injection Pain (PIP). This is due to Cypionate having a higher melting point than Enanthate, making Cypionate more prone to being able to cause PIP. This all depends on how your Testosterone was brewed by your source/supplier.
Compound esters page
Will gear make me infertile? Can I still get my wife/gf pregnant on cycle?Over time it most likely will. You can avoid infertility by running hCG along side to simulate LH and keep sperm production.
That being said many people report getting their wives/girlfriends pregnant on cycle. Safe sex is still advised unless you are trying for a kiddo
Spermatogenesis and its restoration depends on two factors:
The stimulation of Sertoli cells by FSH for which we will use HMG (Menotropin).
And that to assure that intratesticular testosterone is in range, which will be achieved through the use of HCG.
There have been many studies on this, with different treatment protocols. If you want to recover or maintain spermatogenesis during / after a cycle of anabolic steroids or use of exogenous testosterone (TRT for example):
To keep it: Generally 250iu every other day should be sufficient. Another dosing procedure would be M/W/F injections.
A more aggressive dosage of 250iu every day can also be used. Starting with 250eod is generally recommend and can be adjusted if needed, based on a semen analysis.
To restore it: 1000-3000IU of HCG 3 times a week combined with 75-150IU 3 times a week of recombinant FSH.
Due to the short half life of hCG it may be most beneficial to take your weekly dose and break it up for daily injections. Studies show an extremely short half life in men: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/29/1/92/2715810?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Duration will have to be based on a semen quality analysis (This is a specific type of analysis that a doctor will have to perform, but on your own you can buy a test from a drug store to check sperm count, though they may not be as reliable. )
If you want more information look at for the book; "Recovery of spermatogenesis following testosterone replacement therapy or anabolic-androgenic steroid use" by J Abram McBride and Robert M Coward published in the Asian Journal of Androlog
Anabolic steroids abuse and male infertility
Recovery of spermatogenesis following testosterone replacement therapy or anabolic-androgenic steroid use
Testosterone Is a Contraceptive and Should Not Be Used in Men Who Desire Fertility
How do I mix hCG?Generally hCG will come with a vial of lyophilized powder and an ampule of either sodium chloride solution or bacteriostatic water.
You want the bacteriostatic water. The bac water is intended for multiple uses and will inhibit bacteria growth.
The sodium chloride solution is intended to be used in a single injection, so using it over multiple injections it may begin to grow bacteria.
When you check your vial of lyophilized hCG it will generally be 5000iu, although it can come in other amounts.
Using 5000iu as the most common example; if you take 2ml of Bac Water and inject that slowly into your vial of 5000iu hCG, you then have 250iu per tenth of a ml (cc). So every tenth of your 1ml insulin syringe would be 250iu.
The other form hCG might come in is a liquid form. This is hCG in a solution with a preservative to keep it active. You may add bacteriostatic water to this in order to adjust your dosage if you need.
In either case your hCG should be kept in the refrigerator after reconstitution to preserve its shelf life.
The hCG should good for around 60 days. After that it will loose a little potency as time goes on.
Do I need to up my AI while using hCG?Most likely not, although some people may have to. Generally wait to see if you develop e2 sides before upping your dosage.
Do I inject hCG Subcutaneous or Intramuscularly?Either method is fine. IM injections will absorb the medicine quicker. Alternatively Subq offers an easier solution, less painful with a smaller gauge needle, less harmful to your muscle, and less risk to your sciatic nerve.
Sub-Q injection sites: https://cdn.ps.emap.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/08/fig-2-subcutaneous-injection-sites_660.jpg
Will hCG desensitize the Leydig cells in the testes?Desensitization is not something you really need to worry about. The studies that showed desensitized Leydig were performed on rats using much higher doses (comparatively) than used in humans. So unless you’re a rat, you shouldn’t worry.
What is the actual shelf life of hCG when stored properly?:(Contributed by: u/tat_guy_says_what )
Store the powder form of HCG at room temperature away from light, moisture, and heat. After mixing the powder with the liquid you must keep the mixture in the refrigerator. Carefully follow the mixing, storage, and expiration instructions that come with the brand of HCG you are using.
Expiration" in the pharmaceutical industry is defined as "The date placed on the containelabels of a drug product designating the time during which a batch of the product is expected to remain within the approved shelf life specifications if stored under defined conditions, and after which it may not be used." In other words a drug will expire once it falls outside it's acceptable specifications of pH, potency, appearance, etc the primary factor being potency. Once the active ingredient falls outside 90 - 110% its potency the medication is considered to be expired. So a drug that has 89% its listed potency is by FDA and USP standards no longer suitable for use.
HCG is an interesting medication though... Unlike most drugs it's acceptable potency range according to its USP monograph is 80 - 125%. This is due to the fact that it is measured in International Units (IU) and not milligrams (mg). Since the analytical test to measure potency in IUs is not as accurate as the test used to measure potency by mass USP gives HCG the wider potency range. This is true of other medications measured in IUs.
Since the acceptable potency range and the therapeutic index for HCG are quite large a compounder can actually make the medication well above 100% and still be within the acceptable limits. Brand name HCG (source removed) actually states a 60 day expiration date on it's HCG and I've tested their vials to be within 95-100% potency. You can imagine how long the expiration date would be if the HCG was made at 115% or even 125% potency.
I know compounders that have done long term stability studies on HCG showing it to be quite stable up to 90 days under refrigeration. To be conservative most compounders place 30-60 day Beyond Use Dates on their preparations just as we do. Since the Beyond Use Date starts the moment the HCG powder touches water it is important to make sure you get your HCG from a pharmacy that Freeze Dries it's HCG to prevent getting a batch that has already been reconstituted and started to degrade.
Can I inject my hCG in the same syringe as my testosterone?Absolutely.
Do not preload hCG with your oils since hCG needs to be refrigerated and oils will 'Crash' (separate from the chemicals used to suspend the hormone in the carrier oil) if refrigerated.
I just pinned and a little oil leaked out, do I need to inject more?No. It wasn’t enough to worry about.
I just pinned and blood came shooting out, what do I do?This kind of thing happens from time to time when you are injecting. Just clean up and move along with your day. The site may bruise a little bit this is normal as well.
Can I reuse my needles?No. Needles cost pennies a piece and it’s just good practice to use a new needle and syringe each time you inject.
You should be using a new needle to draw from your vial each time.
How do you dispose of used needles?A sharps container is the best option. They are cheep and readily available.
If this isn’t an option any hard plastic container will work. Make sure that once full you tape the lid shut and write ”SHARPS” on the container with a bold pen, like a sharpie.
Check with your local municipality on how to dispose of your container. Some pharmacies may accept them. If not throw the closed container in the garbage.
Never throw dirty needles into the garbage unprotected. This is a biohazard!*
How do you backload a syringe?Take a larger gauge needle/syringe and draw out the desired amount of oil from your vials.
Get you slin pins ready. Pull the stopper all the way out. Grab your loaded syringe and inject into each pin the desired amount (with the cap still on the pin).
Carefully finesse the stopper back in, remove the cap, flip the syringe needle side up, and push the air out of the slin pin.
Plenty of videos on YouTube on the subject as well.
I injected and the spot is sore now. Is that normal?It’s called PIP (Post Injection Pain) and it’s normal.
Factors influencing time course of pain after depot oil intramuscular injection
From the wiki on PIP
I injected and now the site is red and hurts. Is it infected?Most likely not. You probably got a sub-q leak. If you’re really worried about it you can draw a circle around the red spot with a sharpie and watch to see if it grows outside the line. It’s pretty rare.
What are the chances that natural testosterone won’t return to normal after a cycle?There is always a risk. The longer you’re on gear the harder recovery of the HPTA will be, theoretically. That being said, studies point to most people recovering within a year of stopping AAS usage.
What are the best sites to pin?Traps, Delts, Lats, ventrogluteal (VG), vastus lateralis (quads), dorsogluteal (glutes).
Most sites will have some virgin PIP when you inject for the first time (“break in a site”), so be prepared for that.
How do you pin the Ventrogluteal (VG) and other sites?Here is a good reference site regaurding intramuscular injections and techniques: https://pressbooks.bccampus.ca/clinicalproceduresforsaferpatientcaretrubscn/chapte7-5-intramuscular-injections/
I have puffy nipples. Is it gyno?Probably not. Gyno is a hard pea sized lump behind the nipple. If there is no hard lump it isn’t gyno. It is also usually painful when it is growing.
Is it possible to get gyno post cycle?It is reported to happen. If this happens you may need to jump back on a SERM and get bloodwork to be able to tell what exactly is going on. Then you can address the underlying issue causing the gyno.
How long should I take off between my cycles?Generally speaking: Time on + PCT = Time Off
Blood work will tell the full tale. The point is you want your body to fully recover lipids and give it a break between cycles.
I don’t have an alcohol swab for my vials or injection site! What should I do?(credit for write up: u/decatest)
WHO: Alcohol swab skin prep is unnecessary
• The World Health Organization (WHO) states in their latest advice that swabbing beforehand is unnecessary so long as the surface is visibly clean. • The procedure is superfluous so long as you're in a relatively clean environment—not in an infectious diseases wing or exposed high-risk patients in an ICU ward. • Multiple trials were conducted and there was no difference in the infection rate. Swabbing has gone the way of aspirating your pins.
That being said there is no harm in using them either if it makes you feel better. Just don’t be dirty and you’ll be fine.
Can I drink alcohol on cycle? If I drink on cycle anyways should I skip my oral dosage for the day?You should definitely be limiting alcohol on cycle. While some injectable steroids like testosterone aren’t very taxing on the liver, orals can, be so it’s best practice to avoid alcohol.
Skipping your dosage for a day to drink instead won’t do anything to save your liver any stress.
Would tapering off testosterone make recovery easier?Nope it doesn’t work like that. The ester attached to the testosterone will taper it out of your system. By gradually dropping the dosage you’re just keeping you body suppressed for longer and will still have to wait the two weeks (assuming it’s E or C) while the ester clears.
Why is it harder to recover from 19-Nors?(Credit for writeup: u/Essindeess)
In the study researchers found that even after six months LH and FSH were both still suppressed. The recovery of LH and FSH was correlated to the urinary level of the nandrolone metabolite 19-norandrosterone (19-NA). 19-NA was detectable for several months after the last nandrolone administration, and there was a large inter-individual variation in the excretion rate. Some individuals still tested positive (&amp;amp;gt;2 ng/mL) even one year after their last nandrolone dose and still sustained suppression of LH and FSH during that time.
Tren I'm having trouble with finding conclusive studies. It has to do with the metabolites 17α-trenbolone, 17β-trenbolone and trendione. The half life of each are relatively varied depending on source (all of which range between 1-4 days in cattle). The thing is, all the metabolites are able to convert into one another which effectively "resets" (not completely but gets the point across) the elimination time. (Had to read like 6 articles to put all this together)
Its completely understandable that it could take up to six months for all the metabolites to finally be excreted due to the constant conversion on the metabolites, but I can't find a source that confirms this "six month" figure that we throw out.
Orals all at once or spaced out throughout the day?It honestly doesn’t matter. Taking some orals all at once pre-workout can give an extra pump during your workouts. Taking them spaced out during the day will give more stable blood levels. Either way you choose to go the gains will be pretty identical.
Can I take orals only on workout days?Until further studies come out that support a loss of a day(s), and due to an orals already short half life, the current recommendation it to run the oral all the way through the intended cycle duration to allow the body to efficiently and effectively utilize said androgen.
I’m scared of needles why shouldn’t I do an oral only cycle?This is covered in the wiki: Why you should not take an oral only cycle
Quality muscle takes time to grow. A 4-6 week oral cycle is not enough time to make quality gains.
Also without a test base you will be shutting down you HPTA and have no circulating testosterone to keep you feeling normal.
You’ll have to deal with low t symptoms on cycle as well as during recover, which can make it harder to hold onto anything you’ve gained.
How much mass do you put on 20mg sdrol (dbol, adrol, var, etc) in 4-6 weeks?No one can accurately answer this question. This is all dependent on your diet and training routines.
What does being on steroids feel like? Will I get roid rage?Unless you’re coming from a place of low testosterone you probably won’t feel much different jumping onto a basic Testosterone cycle.
"In balanced individuals and at moderate dosages mental side effects are mostly insignificant, but in some people (and some compounds more than others) it can accentuate pre-existing emotional problems and/or personality traits (example: angry person gets angrier). Having self-awareness, knowing beforehand what we are getting into, and taking responsibility for our actions and thoughts is fundamental for dealing with possible mental side effects.” (Credit for help on verbiage to u/HugeMongo )
I read the wiki but am going to do a low test cycle instead of the recommended beginner cycle. 500mg Test seems like a lot....?Once again this is covered in the wiki: Why 500mg?
I’ve got a study that shows multiple doses and the difference in 300 and 600 weekly is significant.
While changes in strength are relatively the same the amount of muscle is almost double that of the smaller dose.
Another study for Wilks, (first was Bashin):
But let’s just say muscle size isn’t enough for you... “For starters, grouping the 300mg and the 600mg groups together in the 2001 Bashin study actually did a favor for the group taking the higher dose of 600mg per week. Their Wilks Score only improved by about 10%, versus about 15% for the 300mg group. The 600mg group DID gain more muscle and overall mass, but they only gained about the same amount of strength (a bit less, actually), so their performance relative to their size – which is what matters for Wilks Score – didn’t increase as much as the 300mg group’s did.”
A lower dose just isn’t worth the risk:reward in terms of the shut down to your HPTA vs the gains you’ll make.
Can I just add a little test to supplement my own natural production?No it doesn’t work like that. Studies show doses as low as 100mg/week will suppress natural testosterone production.
What steroid gives the best face/jaw/beard/voice gains?Unless you are transitioning sex this is not a responsible way to use AAS. There are many safer options for these purposes than steroid abuse.
Due to the amount of underage young men who come to this sub who wish to take steroids for this purpose primarily, we will always recommend that steroids are not to be used for this purpose. As this is a harm reduction board will not discuss this topic on this subreddit.
What dose AI should I take and when should I start it?Generally wait to start your ai until you begin to have symptoms of high e2. Then start with a half dose of your selected ai twice a week. After two weeks you should go get bloodwork done to see exactly where your e2 numbers are, then you can adjust your dose.
Once you get it dialed in you’ll know what you need for future cycles.
I’m taking 1ml twice a week. Is that a good dose?No one knows what 1ml is dose wise. Dosage of AAS would be how every many mg are in each ml (cc). So 1ml twice a week of Testosterone 250mg/ml would be a 500mg per week dose.
How do I recomp on cycle?This is an exceptionally hard task to accomplish without a decent dose of trenbolone, which you are probably not ready for if you are asking this question.
This is accomplished my eating at around maintenance calories on cycle, which will most likely just end up with you “spinning your wheels” and making little to no progress. It is best to use your cycle to bulk, then use your cruise (or off cycle time) to cut body fat.
I am using an oil blend of different esters. How often should I be injecting?You should pin as frequently as needed to keep blood levels stable based on the shortest ester in the blend.
For example the short esters in Sustanon should be pinned daily for most stable levels. So keep that in consideration while purchasing oil blends.
Keep in mind you will need to wait to pct until the longest ester in the blend clears your system.
What kind of needles/syringes should I be using?1/2” 29g Insulin syringes are easiest if you are lean. If you have a little more fat on you, or you are experiencing sub-q leaks, you can get a syringe/needle combo with a 1” needle.
For glutes you should not use less than a 1” needle to avoid sub-a leaks.
You may also use the lure lock type with detachable needles. You would use a smaller 18-20g to draw with then a 25-29g to pin.
What is a blast and cruise and what is a proper cruise dose?Blast and cruise refers to Blasting a heavier dose of AAS for a predetermined amount of time, then dropping down to cruise/trt (testosterone replacement dose) until blood markers return to normal ranges.
A proper cruise dose is going to be whatever puts you on the high side of normal via bloodwork. Generally start with 150mg/wk and get bloodwork done after three-four weeks and adjust from there if needed.
How can I lower blood pressure on cycle? How high is too high?LISS cardio daily is the go to way to lower blood pressure.
WHY DOES YOUR PENIS NOT WORK?(Contributed by u/platewrecked)
Since this question is constantly asked on the Daily, Here we go:
- You've crashed your estrogen because you don't know how to properly use an AI or you used some protocol from the 1990 internet steroid forum that told you to blast letro when your nipples got hard or
- Your estrogen is sky high because you feel good and your boobs aren't growing and why take an AI when you don't have any symptoms but (shhhh your penis is broken) or
- most likely it's simply a matter of your cardiovascular system not having caught up with your increased size on cycle or you cardio is simply non existent
Most of the complaints we see here about penis issues are boil down to "I can get hard but I can't maintain the erection long enough to cum and then I lose it". Well it's pretty simple: Your stamina sucks. Stamina is not high Test or high Tren or whatever you are running, that's libido. Stamina is your body's ability to continue to operate and perform actions under strain and cardiovascular stress.
When you've gained weight and mass on a blast and you aren't doing a lot of cardio to at least keep your cardio level in line with your new size, things are going to start to fail and your penis is not the body's first priority unfortunately. Moving nutrients around, oxygenating your blood and removing waste from the body take priority over the penis staying hard long enough for your to 1) satisfy your girl/boy or 2) achieve an orgasm with a raging hard cock and not making the object of your affection look like they just got out of the swimming pool because of all the sweat you poured on them.
So here is the prescription for a penis that isn't cooperating: CARDIO!
I guarantee, absent some totally fucked up systemic issue like Post Fin Syndrome, neurosis, death grip issues, etc, anyone that is having issues keeping an erection during sex can cure this with this one simple fix Doctors Don't Want You To Know and that is to get on the treadmill or the elliptical or the stair climber or the bike and do LISS for 30-45 minutes every day. You don't have to die while doing this type of cardio: shoot for a HR of between 120-140 BPM and hold it there for the prescribed time. I like to do my LISS either early in the am or after I lift because I get more fat burning benefits.
We can talk about DNH and Test/Nand ratios and all sorts of other issues that may or may not be causing your penis to ignore your wishes but two consecutive days of LISS cardio will cure well over half of this community's dick issues. But you have to keep at it but why wouldn't you when you can put your dick issues in the past.
This PSA is brought to you by a 48 year old with an insane libido, a wife with an insane libido and a sub who requires and deserves a good long pounding at least twice weekly. Being 48, I have had times in my life where my penis is uncooperative and every single time, I have been ignoring my cardio and I have cured it stat.
To put things in some perspective, I've been fighting competitively since I was 5 and for the vast majority of my life I have put in hours and hours of hard HIIT style cardio every week, week after week, year after year. HIIT is not the same for dick health. HIIT is exhausting and not helpful to recovery if you are lifting too. LISS is the penis cure and I have learned to incorporate it into my routine. It's boring yes, but it's so much better knowing that when you have that gorgeous girl spread out in front of you waiting for you to fuck her silly that you don't have to worry about your dick bailing on you.
TLDR: LISS cardio every day!
Are AAS competitive at binding to the receptor site?(Contributed by: u/Essindeess )
First: let me dumb down why androgen receptors do NOT desensitize and that you do NOT run out of androgen receptors.
The receptor testosterone binds to is androgenic receptor NR3C4 (some others, but that’s the major). That is where both DHT and testosterone bind to. It is a nuclear receptor, meaning it’s not on the cell surface, but on the nucleus itself. What happens when testosterone binds to it? Testosterone (or DHT which is more potent) enters the nucleus and induce gene expression, it up-regulates the expression of various proteins, most notable IGFR1 and other goodies that increase muscle growth and protein synthesis. Irrelevant. Here’s what else happens: induced acetylation of the histone portion containing the genetic code for androgenic receptors. Acetylation of a histone allows the increase in transcription of the androgenic receptor mRNA, leading to increased protein expression of AR receptors. It’s (to a minor extent) a positive feedback mechanism. The more binding to AR, the more androgen receptors will be expressed.
Second: Now let's get into competitive binding. That's how receptors work.
"Receptor specificity for testosterone and dihydrotestosterone was demonstrated by competitive binding assays. The potent synthetic androgen, 7a,l7a-dimethyl-19-nortestosterone, inhibited binding of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone while larger amounts of 5cY-androstane3c~,17P-diol and nonandrogenic steroids were required."
So, the stronger the androgen, the stronger it competes for the receptor.
Tl;dr: So putting all this together, YES. There is competitive binding to androgenic receptors, that being said, as androgens bind to AR, it creates a feedback loop of expressing MORE androgen receptors, allowing for MORE binding. Meaning that the weaker androgen, will still get to bind to a receptor. There's enough receptors to go around.